Interview with Donald Robson [Petitioning for 'engineer' to become protected title]

"Ideally, I'd like to see the return of the respect that engineers of old enjoyed" Donald Robson, Design Engineer.

I have slated LinkedIn group discussions in an earlier blog post. I remain steadfast in my opinion of them. Even though they may advance our knowledge and learning of the topics which are being discussed, they do not achieve much else unfortunately.

I mean, if you are looking to get something done. Look elsewhere.

The following two links will direct you to two discussions which are prime examples of us engineers crowding together to share our thoughts and opinions on some hot topics, and not getting a lot done.

1. Why do we covet C.Eng status so much? Is I.Eng losing it's appeal? [54 comments in 7days]

2, Make 'Engineer' a protected title [132 comments in 127days]

After spending a large portion of my evenings this week, joining in and watching on as engineers repeatedly attacked each others opinions on the aforementioned topics, it was obvious that divides were growing [not closing]. We really are a crazy bunch of people.

There is an underlying current of one upmanship in engineering. Essentially we trade in a currency of knowledge, and our wealth is determined by our length of service, our technical experience, our problem solving ability, and our engineering prowess.

Imagine a raw talent, transcending engineering and encompassing many other industries. Politics, history, art, design, marketing, technology, leadership, architecture - the list goes on. In my experience, there are not many engineers out there who successfully embody all those characteristics. You may have known one or two perhaps, even three of these rare beasts. They of course were the engineers who amazed you with their imagination, and their grasp of technical issues both inside and outside of our industry.

WARNING Contentious Issue ALERT! You will possibly know of engineers who 'think' that they are the embodiment of those characteristics mentioned earlier, but that's another story. It is important to realise that we are technologists with our own unique combination of attributes and skills. When they come together, they form an 'organic engineering prowess', which keeps us all in great jobs - communicating what we love. We work hard to stay knowledgeable in our chosen field, and this differentiates us from the general public.

During the lengthy online discussions regarding why being Chartered was so heavily preferred over an Incorporated qualification, and why we should all be fighting tooth and nail for the title of 'engineer' to be legally protected in the UK, as it is in Germany, France and Canada. I began to wonder about the man behind the latest petition. The engineer who had gotten the ball rolling. An engineer named Donald Robson.

Who was he, and why did HE feel the need to start this? The deadline for the petition is not quite yet looming and so far it has had a fantastic response with over 23,000 signatures.

So we hunted down Donald, and contacted him. 

[The questions we posed to Donald were via email messages]

Engine[er]: When you started the latest petition, was it off your own back [if so why]. Or did it come about because of conversations with other Engineers? [who were they?]

Donald: It was both of these really. I've worked with a number of engineers, and many of them share my own view that the term 'engineer' is being cheapened by its attribution to unskilled labourers. When I decided to try to go some small way to change things, I put the idea to a very good friend (an aerospace engineer) and I think we've been ranting regularly about the subject ever since.

Engine[er]: Were you aware of the previous attempts to get the title of 'engineer' protected?

Donald: I did in fact sign the first online petition during the labour government while I was at university. It was a shame that the overwhelming response that time around was met with almost complete apathy by the government. I think it became clear that Downing Street had very little regard for any of the patents except the pay-per-mile road tax petition, which was pretty much dismissed too. Interestingly, I wasn't the first person to submit a petition under the Conservative government's scheme; a number were rejected before I submitted mine. The achievement was wording it in such a way that what I was calling for was within the power of government, i.e. to pass a law.

Engine[er]: Did you know that the past CEO of the Engineering Council, Andrew Ramsay was pivotal in achieving statutory recognition for the qualifications of Chartered Engineer [CEng], Incorporated Engineer [IEng] and Engineering Technician [EngTech] 2008 [link]? He did not think that protecting the title of 'engineer' possible or worth while. What do you think to this?

Donald: I must admit to not being aware of this. I had assumed that the Chartered Engineer title was always protected, by a royal charter. To hear it was as recent as 2008 is surprising, as this was after the original petition. I hadn't really thought about the Incorporated Engineer title. To go off on a slight tangent, I think the Engineering Council needs to promote the incorporated qualification more effectively. The IMechE insists that the two qualifications are equal, but I rarely hear about people aspiring to become Incorporated.

Engine[er]: If we get 100k signatures, and the application does not make it past the 1st stage, then will you try again? And again?

Donald: I'm not sure. I have fairly limited ability to get the message out to people. For example, my attempt to get visibility in various engineering magazines was fruitless. Professional Engineer magazine -- the IMechE publication, did pick it up twice. This was instrumental in the current number of signatories, as it had stagnated at about 7000 before they published. If the IET would ralley their more than 200,000 members, we would have more than enough. My own online presence is fairly small, so without the ability the press has to gather signatures the rumour mill works very slowly. Maybe someone more influential could pick it up next time?

Engine[er]: If the title is granted, how do you see this directly affecting the status and pay of engineers for the future?

Donald: Ideally, I'd like to see the return of the respect that engineers of old enjoyed. Some engineers in history have an almost celebrity-like status even today; notably Brunel and Leonardo. With engineers better respected we can expect an increase in students, and graduates who want to join engineering companies rather than their local council, Delloitte, accountancy firm et cetera. When we're producing only a fraction of the engineers of our economic rivals like China, every new able mind counts.
While the discrepancy between the pay of Engineers and other professionals – who are often less skilled, is a sore point for me as much as any other engineer, financial gain was not a significant factor in doing this. I stay in engineering because I enjoy the work, though a few pay increases wouldn't go amiss...

Engine[er]: Is there anything else that you have done in the past that you can tell me about, to raise the profile of engineers in the UK?

Donald: I'm afraid not, though having been out of university for less than five years I still have plenty of time...


This was a great interview and many thanks to Donald for agreeing to do it. The rest of you; be sure to write and tell us what you think.


Engine[er]